Tulpa.info - metaphysics

I seem to vaguely recall bringing this up before, but evidently we are always partly conscious during sleep or something like that? It's really not accurate to call sleep unconsciousness in general, and so it is probably a poor analogy for death. A good concussion or anaesthesiologist is better!

but evidently we are always partly conscious during sleep or something like that?

I feel like this is theoretical at best

8:19 PM

If I was conscious during deep sleep, I'd know/remember (edited)

I take it you haven't done much lucid dreaming? You definitely can be.

Fixed to say deep* sleep

8:20 PM

Obv you're conscious during dreams, and occasionally somewhat conscious in "light sleep"

This is the topic that came up before. But my memory is fuzzy on what I said.

8:21 PM

We specifically discussed deep sleep.

I think you said that the brain is always processing sight from your eyes, even if it's just the back of your eyelids

8:21 PM

Which again I would call theoretical if I'm not able to tell the difference between that and no processing...

8:22 PM

For all practical purposes, I'm unconscious during deep sleep

Sounds like a belief there, 'rissa.

8:24 PM

Looking up some of the stuff again: The deep sleep phase of sleep involves sleep spindles that actually become significantly more conscious than waking consciousness.

8:24 PM

It's just that we forget them.

8:24 PM

Would you say that you are unconscious during a fugue state because you don't remember it?

8:24 PM

What if you had the classic DID and Shake and Marissa could not remember one another?

8:24 PM

Unconsciousness?

Zen

Sounds like a belief there, 'rissa.

I'd formulate it the other way around - if I went around saying "I'm partially conscious during deep sleep" that would be belief, because I have no way of verifying it

8:25 PM

sleep spindles that actually become significantly more conscious than waking consciousness.

So what the heck do they mean by that?

To clarify a sleep spindle is a description of brainwave activity during sleep. In waking life it's less dramatic and steady. In sleep it goes full on psycho crazy mode sometimes flattening and sometimes GOING FUCKING INSANE

Zen

Would you say that you are unconscious during a fugue state because you don't remember it?

No, but absent any evidence, saying that I experience fugue states on the daily would be an unverifiable belief

The frequencies of these patterns indicate conscious states.

In sleep it goes full on psycho crazy mode sometimes flattening and sometimes GOING FUCKING INSANE

And if you wake up someone during the mega-conscious phase, would they describe having had any experience of that?

I do not know.

8:28 PM

Sleep in general can be weird for that though. I know the earliest phase of sleep, in which you clearly are sleeping, you can be woken up during and not know you were sleeping.

I know the earliest phase of sleep, in which you clearly are sleeping, you can be woken up during and not know you were sleeping.

Now that part I can verify, happens to me quite regularly haha

8:29 PM

But yeah "consciousness in deep sleep" I'll have to call a belief until I have some first-hand experience of it

Surely the opposite is equally valid. Consider this: You have a state in which your brain actively tries to deceive you. Is it better to conclude whether you were conscious thusly by your experiences or by outside math and brainwave activity, while in this state? (edited)

Outside math and brainwave activity is theory. Experience is consciousness. Whether my brain "deceived" me into experiencing it, if I experienced it, I was conscious of it

Memory is the issue, not consciousness.

8:31 PM

Memory is observably fucked with dreams, as is perception, and dreams directly visibly hijack confabulation at the start of every dream...

I mean sure shrugs

I have a friend who attests he does not dream.

8:32 PM

Objectively, factually, he does.

Yeah I know people like that too

8:32 PM

Yeah

To me this is no different than that.

I'll grant that hypothetically it's possible that I'm conscious in deep sleep every night and forget about it as soon as I wake

8:33 PM

This hypothesis seems quite useless to me

Even if we experience a weird brief flash of lucidity we don't remember it is bold to say it doesn't happen when we can see it happening on scans.

8:33 PM

The spikes are so dramatic though it's likely they're actually quite fascinating to experience; it's a shame.

lol

They might actually be like sleep enlightenment experiences or something.

Just wake the person next time the graph is spiking

8:35 PM

Otherwise you're just abstracting/theorizing ("these brain regions are active during daytime consciousness, THEREFORE THEY MUST represent consciousness in sleep as well")

Anywho you interrupted us during roleplay, back to dealing with the serpent cult!

8:35 PM

Oh it's not a matter of activity in regions

8:36 PM

It's a matter of frequency indicating lucidity.

shrugs Same still applies

8:36 PM

"Indicates lucidity during daytime, so MUST MEAN lucidity in sleep"

8:37 PM

I'm not saying it's implausible, but as far as I can verify, it's just belief (edited)

The objective states in which the brain is not doing much are low frequency and steady and don't involve much lightning up of the brain at all. In these situations the entirety of the brain lights up all its systems in big dramatic shows rapidly, as it does when it's highly aware of its environment.

Like I said, wake me up the next time that happens in my brain and I'll get back to you

But haven't we already established that one of the phases of sleep is deceptive? Why not others, or all?

8:39 PM

What if I woke you up and you still couldn't remember? What if you could and it was flawed?

8:39 PM

Fuck human senses for this, I say.

But haven't we already established that one of the phases of sleep is deceptive?

Not really

If I'm in light sleep, you wake me up, and I think no time has passed, that means I was unconscious...

You experience that as no time passing? Lucky son of a bitch. (edited)

Zen

What if I woke you up and you still couldn't remember? What if you could and it was flawed?

Then the theoretical knowledge about my brainwaves flashing in fun colours is useless to me for all practical purposes

I experience every moment of light sleep.

8:40 PM

It's hellish.

8:41 PM

Insomnia is nothing but that state, and I hate it.

You experience that as no time passing?

Yeah, isn't that exactly what you were talking about re: being woken from light sleep?

Have you never sat down and not slept for hours? Except that you did, and even if there were times that you objectively got up and checked the clock, there was also a time when you didn't, and time passed, and you can't have possibly been in that state consciously for that amount of time without giving up.

8:43 PM

It was just all that experience.

8:43 PM

Fuck the brain sometimes.

8:43 PM

Y'know what I mean?

Have you never sat down and not slept for hours?

Yeah in airplanes. I can't sleep sitting ;P

8:44 PM

So does that happen quite frequently to you?

8:44 PM

Conscious light sleep I mean

The passage of time is an interesting thing too, with sleep. The fact that it seems to actually be pretty maintained is interesting.

8:44 PM

Frequently? Not really, no.

8:44 PM

I would've used it more for kinky sexy touchings if that were the case.

xD

It's like you don't even know me, I'm disappointed.

8:45 PM

I experience it a bunch when it's super hot here though.

8:46 PM

And thus, I experienced it quite recently.

Awww lame

Yeah, there weren't even any sexuals.

8:47 PM

Just the dread of having to get up in like two hours

8:47 PM

Having not experienced any unconsciousness.

Does sound awful

And then you get up and experience perfect lucidity as if you had the best nights sleep ever to be.

Oh interesting xD

and you're like "brain. wat?!"

8:48 PM

There's always a crash later, I find, but I nap a lot, so maybe there wasn't and that's just belief... (edited)

lol

Brain's be deceptive is what I'm saying.

8:49 PM

I probably had actually the best nights sleep ever but with the worst experience.

8:49 PM

The two don't necessarily equate!

For sure

Anyway. Serpent Cults and greek heroes, ex-squeeze me.

lawl, have fun

We are also consuming wine and cheese. I am going to put more cheese on crackers come to think of it. With caramelized onions.

8:52 PM

It's the shit.

xD Nice

Hmm i see, thankyou

11:45 AM

Seems like in kinda curious about something else now

11:45 AM

Please don't mind me, but do you know what reality swapping is and if it actually exists?

There's no reason to believe it does. It has all the hallmarks of self-hypnosis and any other form of magic.